42990
From: ILYA, [c-67-168-255-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net]
Subject: Manifold Technology: EV MT-4 & MT-2, etc
URL: MTL-4 Datasheet
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Lately, I've been getting interested in Manifold Technology for PA use... It was first pioneered by Electrovoice in the late 80's... They made two systems worth mentioning : MT2 (with 2x 18's) and MT4 (with 4x 18's)... There isnt much info out there, so i thought i'd summarize and ask some questions and opinions... These systems were mainly designed for high SPL, but not extra-deep bottom end. They are great for providing MAD bass "where it matters" - which is in the 50-80Hz range, maxing out around 60hz. They are basicly useless below 40Hz, but people say they can be x-over at 37-38Hz... I think they were primarily created for space-saving stacking designs, to deal with the directivity issues (cluster beaming) that arise when you stack a Bunch of speakers together. MT4 consisted of MTL-4 bottoms and MTH-4 tops. MTL4 used either an EVM-18B or EV DLMT-18 drivers. MTL2 used EVX-180a drivers. Constructed with 13-ply birch wood. MTL-2B also came in two more versions: PI-218T and DLM-2181. EV also produced a decreased-performance half-sized "trap" version, MTL-2BT, which later became the EV X-Array Xb sub, and later was re-introduced doubled in size again, as Xds sub. According to EV, a block of 2 MT-4's (H+L) powered with 10kW will produce 140db at 1 meter. I found some Michigan sub shootout results that compared MTL2's to Bassmax, LAB sub, Servodrive, etc, and they found that 2x MTL2's produced 126.8db @ 47Hz, -6db, 12 feet... Overall, the MTL's got beaten by those other monster subs, but just the fact that they were in that competition is a good enough reason to wunder about them... theres also a freq responce graph that compares Tuba 30 by Fitzmorris (on his site) with an MTL4... There also are some other similar box designs, such as EAW SB1000z(Ri), TCS 2800, Yorkville TX-8, SBX 220, Apogee FH-18, etc... now, I need to build a PA capable of HIGH SPL levels for events under 1000 people. It will be used mostly for House music and Hardcore Techno in club-like settings, with an occasional outdoor. It needs to fit in my fullsize Chevy van. I have limited time and resources to dedicate to this project, therefore it must be easier to build than LABsub or Tubas, and cheaper than ServoDrives or Bassmax, yet able to come as close to their performance as possible (forget about below 40Hz). Any other design suggestions welcomed. I have an active 4-way x-over for this project, and I am planning on running total of EIGHT 15's or 18's with eight Monoblock 600W 8-ohm amps. I found ONLY ONE plan for MTL-4, included here. Also included is a link to a pdf MTL-4 manual. I am very interested in other Manifold Technology plans and clones. There are supposingly many out there, i just cant find any info on those... PLEASE POST UP SOME LINKS OR PLANS!!! I am also very interested in scaling the MTL-4 box down to fit 15's, so that it fits through the doors better. I dont know much about "scaling" process, so any input is great. I am guessing that since 15/18 ratio is 0.833333, then all the box dimensions will get scaled by multiplying by that number. But i am not sure about that. I would also be interested in possibly "squishing" the box with the 18's in one dimension, for the same reasons... how would i go about that? Also, interested to know, just what "kind" of the box the Manifold designs are... are they 6-th order bandpass variation or what??? Also, how can manufacturers claim to have Manifold design with just one driver per box??? Also, i cant quite make it out from the drawing just how the port system in MTL-4 works... i obviously will need to understand that if i want to build them... Any suggestions on what would make a good driver for such a box??? Brands-vise, and parameters-vise... I am sure i will have more questions later as well :) |
Responses:
[46407] [46233] [46543] [46208] [42992] [42995] [43003] [43013] [43027] [43043] [42997] [42998]
46407
From: VIRGIL, [s010600179af3a6c6.vc.shawcable.net]
Subject: Re: Manifold Technology: EV MT-4 & MT-2, etc
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IT IS ONE MODELL WITH 1 SPEAKER!!! I HAVE IN THE PAST 2 PSC, WORK PERFECT BETWEEN 100-350HZ ON CROSSOVER! INCREDIBILE! SUB ON VOICE! SOO MUCH "COHONES" ON MUSIC! I CAN NOT FIND AGAIN THE MODELL! THE SPEAKERS ARE SOMEWARE IN EUROPE(THAT I HAVE) Moderated By: brian@diysubwoofers.org |
Responses:
None
46233
From: toto, [190-177-158-162.speedy.com.ar]
Subject: Re: Manifold Technology: EV MT-4 & MT-2, etc
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Amigo: Trabaje 8 aņos con 8 sistemas mt4 o sea 8 mt4l y 8mt4h,desde donde te escribo es un lugar dificil de vivir con mercados muy fluctuantes . los sistemas mt usados por mi son comprados en U.S.A. LOS MOVIA CON SENDAS POTENCIAS CROW MACROTECH 2400 , 1200, 600 ;3 PARA CADA SISTEMA . La presion sonora con que trabajan estas cajas es mounstrosa .Para 1000 personas al aire libre con 4 sistemas completos no hay problema ,lo unico es el hi fi a corta distancia necesitas sistemas mas chicos para el publico de adelante. Eleva las cajas en un escenario en una alura de 4 metros minimo no tienen desperdicio. Cuidado con los sub de 18 en la frecuencia de corte lo mismo con los drivers de hi son un poco de licados en lo referente a potencia y armonicos. Disculpen por no usar el ingles ya qie mi ingles es deplorable para escribirlo. Felicitaciones por los comentarios Moderated By: brian@diysubwoofers.org |
Responses:
[46543]
46543
From: miguel hernandez, [24.139.222.188]
Subject: Re: Manifold Technology: EV MT-4 & MT-2, etc
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we modify the evx 180 on magnet area to fit 4 on each mtl-4.we use 4 boxes per side and its wonderful, much better than with dl-18. older but goodies. Moderated By: brian@diysubwoofers.org |
Responses:
None
46208
From: Ryan Bollens, [rrcs-76-79-191-218.west.biz.rr.com]
Subject: My Manifold Enclosure Designs
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After seeing, using, and then re-thinking the Electro-Voice designs- I went ahead and designed two models made to put out as much bottom end as the MTL's but with less footprint. I came up with a 4-18" Enclosure that could be moved by one person. I have pics posted on my website. My partner developed the 2-18" variation. These enclosures landed me an interview with a pro-audio company that was very popular at the time called P.A.S. (professional audio systems) As they outperformed many enclosures much larger while taking less power to drive. You could easily fit 4 of these enclosures in a standard Chevy Astro Van. That's 16-18" in a minivan!!! Moderated By: brian@diysubwoofers.org |
Responses:
None
42992
From: toxicport.e, [202.49.5.53]
Subject: Re: Manifold Technology: EV MT-4 & MT-2, etc
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I am also very interested in scaling the MTL-4 box down to fit 15's, so that it fits through the doors better. I dont know much about "scaling" process, so any input is great. I am guessing that since 15/18 ratio is 0.833333, then all the box dimensions will get scaled by multiplying by that number. But i am not sure about that. Its a start,but doesnt really work in the real world!Drivers have all sorts of specifications that vary. Fs Qts Vas etc. need to build a PA capable of HIGH SPL levels for events under 1000 people. It will be used mostly for House music and Hardcore Techno in club-like settings, with an occasional outdoor. It needs to fit in my fullsize Chevy van. I have limited time and resources to dedicate to this project, therefore it must be easier to build than LABsub or Tubas, and cheaper than ServoDrives or Bassmax, yet able to come as close to their performance as possible (forget about below 40Hz). Any other design suggestions welcomed. Probably Tuba24s or 1850 horns from speakerplans.com will fit the bill. Id go moderate quality 15"s so the ported boxes are portable. If your thinking of making 8 or so ported boxes,id consider making LESS horn loaded enclosures. Theres nothing magic about the MTL. Its just variant of resonant loading. Overall, the MTL's got beaten by those other monster subs, but just the fact that they were in that competition is a good enough reason to wunder about them Maybe,maybe not. Often people measure gear simply because it is handy,and good to compare with. It doesnt necessarily mean it is in the same league. Mike.e |
Responses:
[42995] [43003] [43013] [43027] [43043] [42997] [42998]
42995
From: ILYA, [c-67-168-255-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net]
Subject: Re: Manifold Technology: EV MT-4 & MT-2, etc
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are there any resources that explain "Scaling" of speaker boxes in detail??? Tubas and Folded Horns are MUCH harder to build in comparison to Bandpass boxes and similar designs... As far as building LESS, i thought that in order for the Horn type of enclosures to load properly, they should be used in multiples of 4 per side. I've heard of people using just one or two per side, but theoretically they are missing out. So, i'd still be building 8 enclosures, just a lot more complicated ones... As an alternative, i was thinking about building some 6-th order BP. Maybe even making two of them share a wall to save space, wood, and weight... I am also very interested in 2-driver Manifold designs... Also, Does anyone have any opinions on the Imperial clone offered by Steve Decker at decware.com - particularly the Sub-only version??? |
43003
From: toxicport.e, [202.49.5.53]
Subject: Re: Manifold Technology: EV MT-4 & MT-2, etc
are there any resources that explain "Scaling" of speaker boxes in detail??? No because it doesnt occur. People simply model up a driver in a program and design the right box for it. 4 hornloaded enclosures of the right size will completely beat 8 bass reflex.If you used one central stack all is well. The imperial is an odd size and difficult to move. Compare it to a labhorn! Mike.e |
43013
From: ILYA, [c-67-168-255-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net]
Subject: Re: Manifold Technology: EV MT-4 & MT-2, etc
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can anyone recommend any EASIER to build LABsub designs??? i just dont want to spend a month building the boxes i was also looking at the Wicked One, also on decware site, particularly at the WO32 version, as that one is more of a true horn design than the regular WO... any comments on the Wicked two??? which one would be more acceptable for a PA??? are there any downsides to using 10-inch drivers - seems like they still produce mad SPL (2 WO boxes with 4x10" = 160db, see site) - i dont really care about the super low end... |
43027
From: toxicport.e, [202.49.5.53]
Subject: Re: Manifold Technology: EV MT-4 & MT-2, etc
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can anyone recommend any EASIER to build LABsub designs??? The tubas are easier. You could get some one to cut the wood/build it for you. For me,the accurate cutting is most difficult. If this is impossible simply buy many 15" reflex. IF you want a real horn,it will be large.Do the WOs pass this test? Regards Mike.e |
Responses:
[43043]
43043
From: ILYA, [c-67-168-255-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net]
Subject: Re: WO32
| I posted two messages on the WO32 forum, but no replies yet, there isn't much activity on decware forums with the exception of the Imperial and the SO... i am going to start a new thread dedicated to the WO32 design on this site in a few minutes... |
Responses:
None
42997
From: Relax, [68-112-142-74.dhcp.stcl.mn.charter.com]
Subject: Re: Manifold Technology: EV MT-4 & MT-2, etc
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I have heard the Imperial in full range and it is amazing. If you would Like, the same person who allowed me to audition the Imperial full range, could prolly be persuaded into allowing me to listen to his new SO Imperial. If I venture I could take any kind of measurements you wanted, prolly not scientifically acurate mind you, but probably close enough. If the SO is anywhere near the Imperial full range though, I would go that route no problem. Only downsize is the things are massive, a full 5 feet high and 20 inches deep by like 3 feet wide I think. Very impressive. The man who built the full rangers even changed the design for 2 18s which look incredibly impressive. |
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[42998]
42998
From: ILYA, [c-67-168-255-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net]
Subject: Re: Manifold Technology: EV MT-4 & MT-2, etc
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yes, yes, yes - i would love to get a first hand review of the SO!!! i'm sure it would be a fun experiment for you too... i guess, if you have the means, i wouldn't mind seeing the SPL/Freq chart... maybe even a direct comparison to the Full Ranger... of course, the drivers would need to be mentioned as well... did your friend scale the SO up to 18's too??? is there any way to get any plans from that person??? thanx a bunch in advance! |
Responses:
None
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